Archive Delving - Venture & Dungeon

I'm working my way through more games of crowdfunds past. Today, I'm looking at Venture & Dungeon (which are technically two different games, but bundled together).

This was another early 2020 kickstarter, and I think this might have been some of the first work by Jay Dragon that I checked out. It predates Wanderhome, although not by much, and I wasn't ever that compelled by Sleepaway. But at the time I was really excited about the diceless and gmless play of Dream Apart & Dream Askew, so I knew I would want to grab this one (these two). I'm pretty sure that at the time I'd come mostly from being a fan of Riley Rethal's work (as I mentioned when I read Our Queen Crumbles!).

The pitch for bundling the two games is that they're both reckoning with the classic fantasy rpg without dice or a gamemaster - but my memory is that actually, the games are pretty different. Venture plays pretty close to the standard image of the fantasy adventure game, with heroes going on quests through a magical land. Dungeon, on the other hand, goes "meta" - you'll play a person playing a fantasy character, and it's that person in the middle who we're playing to find out about. The intro ends by saying that both games are "about adventure, about confronting evil and coming out the other side of it, and about the friends we make along the way." Sounds good to me!

There's a lengthy introduction that I'm mostly skimming, because it's a reiteration of the gist! It doesn't look like there's anything different from Dream Apart or Askew to me. For the unfamiliar, the mechanical structure of a No Dice No Masters game is almost entirely open - there are moves, like in pbta games, but they have no "when... then..." structure, or roll or anything attached. They're very much like GM moves in pbta. The only mechanism the game puts in the way is that some moves require a token (these moves are called "strong"). Tokens are (most usually) generated by making a "weak" move. Dream Askew and Apart have "regular" moves, too, which operate out of the token economy, but that category is missing in Venture and Dungeon. Riley's other ndnm game, Galactic, also didn't have regular moves! But Wanderhome does, kind of (although Wanderhome messes with the structure more widely). I like Regular moves, although I can see the design impetus behind getting rid of them.

Venture is first! It has a fun two page spread to "Imagine your Quest" and I like the prompts here. But then we jump immediately into playbooks! There are a lot of them, and each playbook has a lot of parts. I think I'll briefly go over each, and what stands out to me.

• Paladin. Described as "an individual searching for meaning" which I think is close, but not exactly right for me... Maybe "a hero of uncertain devotion" or "searching for certainty" instead. Love the look options and the beliefs picklist. Good moves list, too, although I'd want to dig into it a little more and fiddle with it.
• Fighter, "an individual in a constant battle." These looks aren't as immediately gripping to me, but I like the focus of the fighter as someone for whom violence is normal, or could be normal. I wish "kill someone" was in a different move category than the paladin's - both get it at strong.
• Bard, someone "who revels in their charisma." These picklists cover a wide range and are a lot of fun. I would have preferred if the bard was totally unmagical! It's not very important to the moves. But I'm catered to in that I could pick the right option from the picklist.
• Rogue "goes where they aren't supposed to." Play to find out, among other things, if they're a "guardian", which felt a little out of place to me. This is the first playbook I notice the "ask other players" question, which I quite like - "to describe or act as the people you steal from and the people who catch you." Good moves, especially the weak move questions - like "what would it take for you to turn on me?"
• Wizard, "an individual searching for answers." Focused but good picklist for character adjectives. The magic school picklist is neat but phrased a little frustratingly - each option is "the kind that..." which reads a little oddly. Some fun moves, although I don't like the weak question.
• Cleric, "an individual with a touch of divinity." These character adjectives are just a little too focused for me. Interestingly, they get one of Dungeon World's Discern Realities questions - there's a connection here, because Clerics in DW use wisdom, as does the Discern Realities move, but the question they get is "what should I be on the lookout for?" which struck me a little oddly.
• Druid, "an individual looking for a home." Interesting framing - again a little reminiscent of DW, with its focus on the Druid's home region & animals. This is the start of the guest playbooks! This one is by Luke Jordan, whose work I'm also a fan of. You get secret languages - I think it's a little too bad to separate, like, fish and birds and beasts, but I get why you'd do it. The call to run away to the wild choices are great! So are the ask other players q's.
• Immolator, "an individual who shines like the sun." Now we're definitely in DW territory (and probably very explicitly Friends at the Table's Hieron, based on how prominent their Immolator was). This is by a. fell, whose name is familiar to me, but I couldn't name where I've seen them. The sacrifice question is cool - sets up what you're likely to burn, although it's a little loose, since there's not a theme of sacrifice otherwise. The ask other players q is important, but there's not a lot of text tying this one together - it depends on knowledge of the immolator in DW I think. This does do just about the coolest thing I've ever seen in a ndnm playbook though, with the "Dire action" section - the immolator starts with an extra token, but if they ever have none, they have to immediately sacrifice something. The moves are cool! I think one weak move is a little problematic - "unleash the full force of your power" is just a little too useful to be a weak move, I think. This is what regular moves are for!
• Oathbound, "an individual pulled to a purpose." This seems like another take on the paladin! This is by Rufus Roswell - I've seen some of his stuff elsewhere, but never dug into it. The looks picklist doesn't really help me understand the character we're building, and the "choose two gifts and one you will never have" doesn't quite hit as hard as the set up made me expect. The moves are pretty good, but don't quite point to a fantasy archetype still!
• Oathbreaker, "an individual who seeks uncharted paths." Again by Roswell! This and the previous Oath- playbook can be exchanged for each other, like paladins in d&d. This definitely has a strong "antihero" vibe - a little more particular than that, maybe, but it's a little more cohesive. The looks section is a lot sharper, as is the character adjectives picklist. There's not a lot of oathbreaking in here - maybe one weak move, but otherwise it's just the vibe of being a person who doesn't stay in one place for long. That's good, but it's still not quite full thematically for me.
• Warlock, "an individual with a powerful relationship." I think that could probably be workshopped a little. This is by Atlas Sellman, who I did not recognize! The magic picklists are cool - "Rules you are allowed to break" and "what your patron doesn't give you" are good hooks. As someone who is in the process of giving up gender, I do think it would be hard for me to pick that option over "gravity" and "time" (but I've always been pragmatic). There's one tricky thing in the moves, which is "receive a demand from your patron" is an awesome weak move, but it gives you the token right away! I suppose that's just setting up juicy drama for your table if you cash it in immediately, but this is why I love normal moves (and wanderhome's twists on the formula).
• The Darkness (our first setting element)! This is just the kind of primordial evil - it could be "endless night" or "blinding rage" or "erasure of history." There's a fun "NPC ideas" zone which is very welcome.
• The Celestial. Picking only two ways the celestial manifests is tricky for me! I get the pattern, but I'd want more options, I think. The moves are good, but I do think I want something with a little more bite than "manifest power in an unexpected way." But maybe we'll get more into, like, social power.
• The Arcane. I think representing magic as it's own setting element is cool - I like that the Wizard and the Arcane players probably collaborate on what spells are like! I think the "manifesting" picklist is cool for that, but it's also a little blunt - what about the ways the arcane manifests in society? towers, schools, debates, forgotten texts, etc.
• The Mundane. I like these little manifestations too! Maybe what I need is for some of these things to be put into moves. I do love the "show someone else trying to deal with the same situation in a different way" move.
• The Authority. Ahh, now here we have some classic fantasy stuff. Manifesting with legendary weapons or industrial might sure are two cool things to have on a picklist next to each other! Great desires, too.
• The Underbelly. Classic, and you gotta have it, but it's pretty good here.

That's Venture! On the whole, I think I can see what it's going for, and there's some great stuff, but a lot of the stuff comes across as a little restrained, unwilling to go too far. 

Next up is Dungeon! We're instructed that we'll be moving between the two worlds, the tabletop and the hometown, and hopefully pretty "fluidly." We build each pretty quickly, with some neat parallels between them - our hometown map has a "line that separates the poor from the rich" - our tabletop map has a "line that separates safety from danger." There's some (probably deliberate) ambiguity, in that both worlds direct us to indicate on the map where we found a foe - do all "foes" cross the boundaries of worlds, like we do? Maybe I'm just reading too much into it.

There are a few additional rules - monsters are called out explicitly, and the text notes that the "game master" playbook has no extra control over monsters than anyone else does. There's sort of a presentiment of Wanderhome's kith in the idea of little setting elements that anyone can pick up. You can slay monsters for treasure, which grants an additional move! There's also rules for leveling up - when you level up you get to choose from some rewards, like "ask any character a question," or "add a new move" (including from a setting element! interesting!), and "change your name or gender." There's a rule for dying, and a helpful list of phrases of "gaming lingo" which is quite funny. Alright, playbook time!

• The Cleric - "a helpful kid playing a heroic character." I didn't mention at all Venture's powers/struggles, which were often really good. Dungeon's Cleric's are great though - "their powers are sacred, soothing, and defensive." Great names, fun kid genders, very cool spell list. I like the moves quite a lot.
• The Fighter - "an emotional kid playing a heroic character." Their powers are both "aggressive" and "supportive". Cool choice happening there - I would have probably swapped the cleric's defensive for fighter's supportive. There's a "Choose what you've both given up" list which is pretty hard hitting, and the martial tradition choices are great. 
• The Rogue - "a disobedient kid." Picklists remain strong, although the looks and names don't quite reach the heights of the others so far. Roguish traditions are all very good. The moves are good too, although the strong questions don't hit for me very hard.
• The Wizard is "an excited kid." This is very cute, a little twist of expectations but a perfect fit. That "argue about the rules" is a strong move is very funny.
• The Little Sibling is "a troublesome kid playing a newly-created character." That's very funny! The choose two hero traits list is a phenomenal read of the social act of playing games. Overall it's a little further on the "funny" side than the "ow my heart" side, but there's no problem with that.
• The Game Master is "a thoughtful kid channeling a force outside their control." And "their powers are social, prepared, and labyrinthine." Cool descriptor. They share a "workshopped name" with the wizard, which is an interesting overlap / accurate read. They get to choose personality traits they project onto their NPCs which, oof. Some pretty cool moves, although a lot of the weak moves are pretty mean in a way - they're mostly about being a jerk to the people you're playing with, rather than the tabletop character. Very interesting strong move about passing the real world "GMing" duty to another person, by handing them a setting element sheet.
• The Dungeon, our first setting element! These setting elements are pretty bare bones - just what they might look like and some moves. Standout here is "offer the party what they need most at a horrifying price."
• The Denizens. I think we are supposed to contrast these with monsters! "Sometimes people call them goblins, gremlins, orcs, or imps, but it might be more accurate to call them 'your friends.'" That's fun!
• The Powers-That-Be. This is a stand-in for the cosmic/metaphysical powers of the tabletop world, as well as the real powers of the hometown world, which puts a fun spin on the "strike with fury and lightning, destroying all in your path" move.
• The Mysteries. The description here is a little more nebulous than I would like - I think it's neat to have a setting element be unexplained, but it feels just a little too wide. If it's just the playbook for the bigger world, it must be pretty big, if there are only three other ways to describe the world!
• Monsters! This is maybe why there aren't many setting elements - there will also be monsters. They also do double duty - the restless dead are the zombie-like denizens of high school, the glamorous ones are fae royalty and college kids. The treasures don't quite all translate perfectly - the restless dead's treasures are almost all certainly for tabletop characters, while the glamorous ones can give you a textbook, or a backpack with weed. They're each pretty important, but I don't really want to write up each one individually. I'll just say that some of them miss the mark a little bit for me, in part because of inconsistencies in how they live in the dual worlds, and some of them hit their themes harder and more interestingly than others.

And that's Dungeon! Both look like fun to play through. If I had to pick only one, I think Dungeon takes a slightly bigger swing, but Venture is also totally solid. Reading through them makes me excited to think about ndnm design, and diceless & gmless games again!